View source for Continuity/Siege of Holtburg and Founding of Rithwic

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There are some inconsistencies related to the seige of Holtburg, the rescue by Celcynd, and the founding of Rithwic.

== Holtburg ==
Holtburg was founded in 2 PY<ref name=ACManualHoltburg>1999/11 [[Release]] - [[Asheron's Call Manual]]: [[Asheron's Call Manual/Holtburg|Holtburg]]</ref><ref name=HoltburgTNSign>2010/06 [[Shifting Gears]] - [[Town Network]]: [[Holtburg (Town Network Sign)]] description</ref> In 6 PY, Tumeroks besieged the town.<ref name=HistoricalMarker>1999/11 [[Release]] - [[Worcer's Missing Heirlooms]]: [[Historical Marker]] description</ref><ref name=HoltburgRedoubtDirections>1999/11 [[Release]] - [[Worcer's Missing Heirlooms]]: [[Directions to the Holtburg Redoubt]] text</ref><ref name=CaveOfAlabreeDiretions>1999/11 [[Release]] - [[Brogord's Demise]]: [[Directions to the Cave of Alabree]] text</ref><ref name=HistoryOfAubereanVol5>2003/03 [[A Perfect Paradox]] - [[The History of Auberean]]: [[The History of Auberean/Volume V: New Arrivals (-540 to 13)|Volume V: New Arrivals (-540 to 13)]]</ref> Most of the population retreated to the Holtburg Redoubt, where they were slain by the Tumeroks.<ref name=HistoricalMarker /><ref name=HoltburgRedoubtDirections /><ref name=HistoryOfAubereanVol5 /> The children were rescued by the mage Celcynd.<ref name=HistoricalMarker /><ref name=HoltburgRedoubtDirections /><ref name=HistoryOfAubereanVol5 /><ref name=HardunnasRetiredDialog>1999/11 [[Release]] - [[Worcer's Missing Heirlooms]]: [[Hardunna]]'s retired dialog</ref><ref name=WorcersRetiredDialog>1999/11 [[Release]] - [[Worcer's Missing Heirlooms]]: [[Worcer]]'s retired dialog</ref><ref name=WorcersDialog>2004/12 [[The Calm]] - [[Worcer's Missing Heirlooms]]: [[Worcer]]'s dialog</ref><ref name=ACrabbedNote>1999/11 [[Release]] - [[Water of Mount Lethe]]: [[A Crabbed Note]] text</ref><ref name=OfCelcyndTheDour>1999/11 [[Release]] - [[Water of Mount Lethe]]: [[Of Celcynd the Dour]] text</ref> The children escaped through a summoned portal to Rithwic.<ref name=HardunnasRetiredDialog /><ref name=WorcersRetiredDialog />

Children known to have been saved are:
* [[Flinrala Ryndmad]]
* [[Hardunna]]
* [[Worcer]]

Adults known to have been killed are:
* [[Brogord the Forester]], father of Flinrala Ryndmad.<ref name=WorcersDialog />
* Mother of Worcer.<ref name=WorcersDialog /><ref name=WorcersRetiredDialog />
* Father of Worcer.<ref name=WorcersDialog /><ref name=WorcersRetiredDialog />

Adults assumed to have been killed are:
* [[Ryndya]], mother of Flinrala Ryndmad.<ref name=LetterToRyndya>1999/11 [[Release]] - [[Brogord's Demise]]: [[Letter to Ryndya]] text</ref>
* [[Roland]], father of Hardunna.<ref name=WorcersDialog /><ref name=HardunnasRetiredDialog />
* [[Hope]], mother of Hardunna.<ref name=WorcersDialog /><ref name=HardunnasRetiredDialog />

Some sources say all the adults were killed.<ref name=HistoricalMarker /><ref name=HardunnasRetiredDialog /> Other sources say many (but not all) of the adults were killed,<ref name=HistoryOfAubereanVol5 /> or imply that some of the adults survived.<ref name=ACrabbedNote />

The age of the children is also somewhat unclear. Flinrala Ryndmad once said that, when her father was killed, she was just a babe in swaddling.<ref name=FlinralasRetiredDialog>1999/11 [[Release]] - [[Brogord's Demise]]: [[Flinrala Ryndmad]]'s retired dialog</ref> Flinrala also said that her father was going to make her an axe of her own, as soon as she was big enough to hold one.<ref name=FlinralasDialog>1999/11 [[Release]] - [[Brogord's Demise]]: [[Flinrala Ryndmad]]'s dialog</ref> Worcer and Hardunna referred to themselves as a "boy" and a "girl" at the time of the attacks.<ref name=WorcersDialog /><ref name=WorcersRetiredDialog /><ref name=HardunnasRetiredDialog />

== Celcynd ==
Celcynd stated that, when he was younger, he found adventure in the area around Rithwic.<ref name=MindorlasLetterCelcyndsDialog>1999/11 [[Release]] - [[Mindorla's Letter]]: [[Celcynd the Dour|Celcynd]] dialog</ref>

At some point, Celcynd and Brentsella were romantically involved.<ref name=OldWarehouseCelcyndsRing>1999/11 [[Release]] - [[The Old Warehouse]]: [[Celcynd's Ring]]  inscription</ref><ref name=OldWarehouseLetterToCelcynd>1999/11 [[Release]] - [[The Old Warehouse]]: [[Letter to Celcynd (Brentsella)|Letter to Celcynd]] text</ref><ref name=OldWarehouseDialog>1999/11 [[Release]] - [[The Old Warehouse]]: Dialog</ref> At some point, the two of them visited [[Mount Esper]].<ref name=OldWarehouseLetterToCelcynd /> Later, their relationship ended, with Brentsella leaving an unsent letter behind in the Old Warehouse.<ref name=OldWarehouseLetterToCelcynd /><ref name=OldWarehouseBrentsellaDialog>1999/11 [[Release]] - [[The Old Warehouse]]: [[Brentsella]] dialog</ref> In the letter, she encouraged Celcynd to pursue things with [[Mindorla]].<ref name=OldWarehouseLetterToCelcynd /> It would appear that Celcynd did, but prior to 10 PY, Celcynd and Mindorla also ended their relationship, and by 10 PY, Mindorla was looking to reconcile. <ref name=MindorlasLetterLetterToCelcynd>1999/11 [[Release]] - [[Mindorla's Letter]]: [[Letter to Celcynd (Mindorla)|Letter to Celcynd]] text</ref>

Some years prior to 10 PY, Harlune lived in Arwic.<ref name=TheReclusiveMage>1999/11 [[Release]] - [[Water of Mount Lethe]]: [[The Reclusive Mage]] text</ref> Before he was known as [[Harlune the Misanthrope]], he was Harlune of Arwic.<ref name=BarkeepRicetha>1999/11 [[Release]] - [[Barkeep Ricetha]] dialog</ref> Harlune was a famous mage, and many young mages came to hime seeking apprenticeship.<ref name=BarkeepRicetha /> The only pupil he took on was Celcynd.<ref name=TheReclusiveMage /><ref name=BarkeepRicetha />

Celcynd was the first Isparian to master Empyrean planar magic.<ref name=OfCelcyndTheDour /><ref name=TheReclusiveMage /><ref name=HistoryOfAubereanVol5 /> Celcynd mastered planar magic after becoming Harlune's apprentice,<ref name=TheReclusiveMage /> but it is unclear if he learned planar magic during his apprenticeship, possibly with the help of Harlune, or after his apprenticeship. What is known is that he scibed these planar spells for Harlune, but Harlune considered them to be more trouble than they were worth, and he locked them away.<ref name=TheReclusiveMage /> Harlune later moved to the Mite Maze, to avoid any more would-be apprentices.<ref name=TheReclusiveMage /> 

Harlune once referred to Celcynd as "the planar mage from Rithwic," and that he had borrowed one of his  [[The Reign of Alfrega|history books]] a few years back from 10 PY.<ref name=WaterOfMountLetheHarlunesRetiredDialog>1999/11 [[Release]] - [[Water of Mount Lethe]]: [[Harlune the Misanthrope|Harlune]] retired dialog</ref> Harlune also stated that Celcynd was once the greatest of his generation.<ref name=WaterOfMountLetheHarlunesRetiredDialog />

[[Wylreda the Scribe|Wylreda]], the scribe of Rithwic, described Celcynd as "Celcynd the Dour, mage of Rithwic," in her text ''Of Celcynd the Dour'' written circa 10 PY.<ref name=OfCelcyndTheDour />

[[Tazal al-Ashfai]], a planar mage near Al-Jalima, called Celcynd his old colleague.<ref name=TazalAlAshfai>1999/11 [[Release]] - [[Tazal al-Ashfai]] dialog</ref>

[[Hendac the Watcher]] wrote in  ''The Golems: Chiseled Forms'' (AKA ''The Sleepless Stones'') that Celcynd once told him that he managed to swim to the island off the coast of Eastham, and there he found a castle in the same style as Neydisa, guarded by Diamond Golems. Hendac wasn't certain on the truth of this tale, as Celcynd was inebriated at the time.<ref>1999-2000 (exact date unknown) [[Microsoft Zone Archive]] - [[Microsoft Zone Archive/Asheron's Lore|Asheron's Lore]]: [[Microsoft Zone Archive/Asheron's Lore/The Golems|The Golems]]</ref><ref>2001/10 [[Dark Majesty]] - [[AC:DM CD Lore]]: [[AC:DM CD Lore/Late Dereth Texts/The Sleepless Stones|The Sleepeless Stones]]</ref>

When Holtburg was under seige in 6 PY, Celcynd was present. He used the planar magic he had mastered to summon a portal to save the children.<ref name=HistoricalMarker /><ref name=HoltburgRedoubtDirections /><ref name=OfCelcyndTheDour /><ref name=HistoryOfAubereanVol5 />  But, when he tried to summon a second portal to save the adults, he was unable to, not having enough mana to cast the spell again.<ref name=WaterOfMountLetheHarlunesRetiredDialog /><ref name=OfCelcyndTheDour /><ref name=ACrabbedNote /><ref name=HistoryOfAubereanVol5 /> This failure to save the adults is what led Celcynd to become a drunkard.
<ref name=WaterOfMountLetheCelcyndsDialog>1999/11 [[Release]] - [[Water of Mount Lethe]]: [[Celcynd the Dour|Celcynd]] dialog</ref><ref name=WaterOfMountLetheHarlunesRetiredDialog /><ref name=OfCelcyndTheDour /><ref name=ACrabbedNote /><ref name=HistoryOfAubereanVol5 /> Even the love of Brentsella was not enough to bring him out of his guilt for long.<ref name=OfCelcyndTheDour />

== Rithwic ==
Rithwic was settled in 7 PY.<ref name=ACManualRithwic>1999/11 [[Release]] - [[Asheron's Call Manual]]: [[Asheron's Call Manual/Rithwic|Rithwic]]</ref><ref name=HistoryOfAubereanVol5 /><ref name=RithwicTNSign>2010/06 [[Shifting Gears]] - [[Town Network]]: [[Rithwic (Town Network Sign)]] description</ref> It was originally a small stonemason's hamlet.<ref name=ACManualRithwic />

Brentsella and others used to live in the [[Old Warehouse]].<ref name=OldWarehouseBrentsellaDialog>1999/11 [[Release]] - [[The Old Warehouse]]: [[Brentsella]] dialog</ref><ref name=WarehouseDirections>1999/11 [[Release]] - [[The Old Warehouse]]: [[Warehouse Directions]] text</ref> It is implied that Celcynd may have lived there as well.<ref name=WarehouseDirections />

Some time between Leafcull, 10 PY and Leafcull, 9 PY the second settlement of East Rithwic was built on the other side of the river.<ref name=ACManualRithwic /> The bridge, named Prosper Span, connects Rithwic and East Rithwic. It was built from the stones that, in more dangerous times, were Rithwic's fortifications.<ref name=ACManualRithwic />

== Analysis ==
=== General ===
One thing that seems clear regarding all the lore surrounding the siege of Holtburg and the history of Celcynd, is that there was a much larger span of time between the past events and the beginning of the game. With children of Holtburg being described as literal infants, Celcynd being described as the greatest of '''his generation''', or Brentsella and Celcynd being described as old timers, it seems clear that the writer(s) of that lore thought that 20 or so years had passed, rather than the 4 or fewer that we know now.

=== Holtburg ===
Holtburg's founding in 2 PY has no conflicts with other information, and makes sense in the larger picture, as Aluvians didn't settle outside of the Underground City until 0 PY, after the defeat of the Olthoi Queen.

Likewise, the seige of Holtburg occurring in 6 PY does not have any direct conflicts. We have multiple sources from release giving it that date, and it was reiterated later in ''The History of Auberean''. The only potential conflict is that this was supposed to take place in the era before lifestones, so the deaths were permanent. But that is a topic for [[Continuity/Lifestones|another article]].

Our first conflict is with the death total. The historical marker states that the people of Holtburg were slaughtered in the redoubt, and only the children were spared. Hardunna's retired dialog also stated that all of the adults died in the redoubt. The text ''Of Celcynd the Dour'' also states the adults were unable to be saved.

However, the text ''Directions to the Holtburg Redoubt'' states that most of the population retreated into the redoubt, implying that some chose to hide elsewhere or flee. In the text ''A Crabbed Note'', Harlune writes to Celcynd that he has heard the people of Holtburg praising Celcynd for saving their children. This again implies that some adults survived. And later on in ''The History of Auberean'' it states that many adults died, again implying some survived.

Finally, we have conflicts with the children themselves. Flinrala describes herself in 6 PY as an infant, and again describes herself as not big enough to wield an axe. Worcer calls himself a boy, Hardunna calls herself a girl, and in general, the survivors are referred to multiple times as children. The issue with this is that these are descriptions of these characters in 6 PY, and the game starts in 10 PY. When players were first able to interact with these NPCs, they have the appearance of adults, and their dialog does not indicate that they are still children.

=== Celcynd ===
Celcynd's history is a complicated one.

It is clear that, since he saved the children of Holtburg with planar magic, that his mastery of planar magic occurred prior to the siege of Holtburg in 6 PY. This would also mean his apprenticeship with Harlune occurred prior to 6 PY.

It also seems clear that after the events of Holtburg, Celcynd's glory days were behind him. While it is possible that he did not immediately fall into drunkenness from the guilt, we have no solid evidence that any of the events in his life took place after Holtburg.

If that is the case, then Celcynd and Tazal would have been colleagues prior to 6 PY. It would also place his younger days of adventure around the area of Rithwic before 6 PY.

=== Rithwic ===
Similar to Holturg, we have no conflicting rates for the founding of Rithwic. In 1999, the manual stated that Rithwic was settled in 7 PY. In 2004, the ''History of Auberean'' reiterated this, with the slight rewording of ''founded'' rather than ''settled''. And in 2010, it was stated again in the town network sign that Rithwic was settled in 7 PY.

The issue this creates is that, in 6 PY, Celcynd summoned a portal to Rithwic to save the childred of Holtburg, which logically does not make sense.

== Conclusion ==
Regarding time spans: Despite the fact that the texts and dialog describing these events indicate  decades have passed between these historical events and the "present day," we know that only a matter of years have actually passed. We have no reason to assume that the founding of Holtburg, the siege of Holtburg, or the founding of Rithwic have had their dates retconned. And even if they had, there is simply not enough room in the timeline to fit multiple decades in. At the earliest, all of those events would have to occur after 0 PY, when Aluvians started settling above ground. And we know that the game began in late 10 PY.

Regarding the siege: The fact that in Harlune's ''A Crabbed Note'' he wrote that parents praised Celcynd for saving their children is proof enough that some of the adults survived. Based on all available sources, what appears to have happened is that some of the population of Holtburg (parents and children) hid in the redoubt, while others (at least some parents), fled or hid elsewhere. The Tumeroks trapped all of those that had hid in the redoubt, and all the adults in the redoubt were killed, defending the children from the Tumeroks and giving them enough time to escape.

We must assume that the surviving children players first encountered in 10 PY were not actually young children in 6 PY, but perhaps 12 to 15 years old, putting them in their late teens to early twenties in 10 PY.

Regarding Rithwic: The first possible explanation is that the developers retconned Celcynd's portal going to Rithwic. There are only two sources that stated Celcynd helped them escape to Rithwic, and both of those sources were dialog from Worcer and Hardunna that were removed in 2004. We cannot be certain this was an intentional retcon, as the quests involved were completely restructured, and pretty much all dialog was rewritten. But it remains a possibility that, instead of Rithwic, the children were sent to some unspecified location, making the siege of Holtburg and founding of Rithwic a non-issue.

The other possibility is that, while Rithwic wasn't officially founded as a town until 7 PY, there was at least some small settlement there prior to that. We know that Brentsella and others tried to live in the Old Warehouse. We don't know for certain if they lived there before or after 7 PY, but we do have other instances of NPCs living in dungeons prior to their town being founded, for example, in Lytelthorpe and Yanshi.

If some people lived in the area of Rithwic before it became a town, this would also help explain Celcynd's comment about finding adventure in the area when he was younger. It would also explain Brentsella and Celcynd being labeled old timers in the ''Warehouse Directions'' text - old timers would refer to those that lived in the area prior to the settlers of Rithwic moving there.

Finally, if we use our imagination, it could even help explain why Celcynd was in Holtburg at all, and why he summoned a portal to Rithwic. If the siege of Holtburg occurred later in 6 PY, and the official founding of Rithwic occurred earlier in 7 PY, it is possible that Celcynd happened to be in Holtburg during the siege because he was looking to recruit settlers for the new town of Rithwic. He would have already had a portal tie to Rithwic because he was using his planar magic to bring in settlers.

We can't draw any conclusions either way, but the fact that both explanations are plausible allows us to have the siege occur in 6 PY and the founding of Rithwic occur in 7 PY and not create a continuity issue.

== References ==
<references/>